CAVS RECORD: 19-63
Stage Completed . . . Even Though the Cavs Never Could Figure Out the Bulls
As much as I was dying to figure out the identity of the mysterious hold the Chicago Bulls had on the Cleveland Cavaliers, it’s for the best that this series is over now. Even if it’s before we had an opportunity for a “Scooby-Doo”-style reveal.
It was almost as if Chicago had the ability to put some sort of mystical spell on the Cavaliers, which would hypnotize them for roughly eight- to nine-minute periods (of gametime) . . . and only LeBron James had the strength to push through it.
Despite being the 8 seed, Chicago probably ended up being the strongest team in the bottom half of the Eastern Conference bracket. And maybe that shouldn’t be all that surprising . . . with Miami being a team without a supporting cast, Charlotte being a team without a superstar, and Milwaukee being a team without a Bogut.
But on paper, at least to me, it still seems like the Cavs have advantages in almost every conceivable category over the Bulls . . . including all match-ups, with the obvious exception of Derrick Rose Vs. Mo Williams, or even Rose Vs. the Cleveland defense as a whole.
And yet, it felt like this was the Boston Celtics series . . . where, at least as I see it playing out, it doesn’t matter how dominant you are at certain points in the game . . . any letdown will make it a game. And any time it’s a game, you do have a good chance of losing.
But Chicago? Even in a worst case scenario that seemed unlikely.
You’d have to get up pretty early in the morning to stymie the Cavs in a First Round series this year . . . but, well, that’s exactly what the Bulls did.
It’s effort. It’s drive. It’s the present. It’s staring “the end of the line” in the face, and mentally willing it on . . . not with sheer talent, or even execution, but with relentlessness.
The Cavs, on the other hand, fought through one eight-minute trance in the first game, but were otherwise cued up and ready to go. The marquee was crowded; Mo, Anderson Varejao, Antawn Jamison and Shaquillle O’Neal all had LeBron’s back and things were good in Cleveland.
Game Two was sort of a buzzkill, but the Cavs absorbed a strong effort from the Bulls . . . and Cleveland was able to put things together in the fourth quarter. Thanks, unsurprisingly, to a superhuman LeBron effort. The Bulls were outwardly daring him to take jump shots. He did, and he made them.
Game Three was one of those games that we’ve seen often after games like Game Two. It was like a reverse game of Chicken . . . where the Cavs try to figure out how much they can yield to an opponent and still win the game. Or an EKG limbo. “How low can we go?”
The result was one of the least interesting playoff games imaginable with LeBron James on your team. The Cavs didn’t show any consistent signs of life, intensity or teamwork, until the fourth quarter . . . but by then it was too late – and a last ditch effort to eke out a win was thwarted.
That loss should’ve been a wake-up call. But it wasn’t . . . for anyone other than LeBron.
The King had a monster game. He finished with a wicked triple-double: 37 points (on 11-of-17 shooting, including 6-of-9 from beyond the arc, plus 9-of-10 from the stripe) plus 12 rebounds and 11 assists. He also had two steals and a block. It was amazing.
Antawn said he observed a “scary” LeBron James before that game . . . and added, “I haven’t seen [LeBron] in this mind-set since I’ve been here.” He didn’t say if anyone else had noticeable, notable mind-set changes. But I’d like to think that someone did.
Antawn had 24 points (on 9-of-16 shooting) and Mo had 19 points (on 6-of-10), but the Cavs were never able to get much going, consistently, as a team. It was just an otherworldly performance by LeBron, who seemed to be directing the entire game. Fortunately, some teammates stepped up and hit shots . . . and it turned out to be a solid win. Totally awe-ful . . . definitely not dull, or exciting.
Everything could be made up in Game Five, a close-out game at the Q. And it was!
At times.
Look, I tend to fall on the optimistic, glass half-full side of the Cuyahoga. But the playoffs bring out some more real realities, and sweat from my palms.
There are too many possessions where the Cavs are playing a mid-December offense. There are too many possessions where the Cavs are playing a mid-March defense. There are too many possessions where the Cavs feel like they have all the possessions in the world to put away the Chicago Bulls . . . and opt to put it off until a future one.
After the lackluster effort throughout the past few games, I spent Game Five thinking about effort. In the first quarter, it was there. In the second quarter, it was there. In the fourth quarter, it was there. In the third quarter, it was still in the locker room, watching highlights from the second quarter.
That doesn’t necessarily mean the Cavs played well in those quarters (although they did for most of them). There was some pretty weak, unpolished-looking defense and offense mixed in there . . . but the effort and intensity were there, and at this point, that is what I’m asking for.
If we make it to an Orlando series in the Eastern Conference Finals, we can worry about finding perfection then. For now, I just want to see playoff intensity . . . because it’s exciting that way. And we have LeBron and a stacked stable of star role players, which should make it even more exciting.
And LeBron’s accomplices were back in action on Tuesday night. Antawn had 25 points (on 8-of-14 shooting) and five rebounds. Shaq had 14 points (on 7-of-9 shooting), eight rebounds, three assists, and knocked the Bulls’ bigs out of the game, literally, by drawing all kinds of fouls.
Delonte West covered up Mo’s off-night, with 16 points (on 6-of-11 shooting), two rebounds and four assists. He also made some huge hustle-plays, including a few which led directly to fast-break points.
Jamario had seven points (including a 3 and an alley-oop) in 16 minutes . . . and Varejao had five points and seven rebounds in 27 minutes. He also brought his toughness back.
The Cavs only won by two points, 96-94 . . . but overall, it was a more comforting win than Game Four on Sunday. (With all due respect to the more-than-satisfying efforts of LeBron on that night.)
So Cleveland dropped Chicago four-games-to-one, despite never really being able to zero in on them enough to really clamp them down. It feels a little unfinished in that way; the Cavs weren’t able to learn anything, or improve themselves . . . on their attack or on their defense.
It’ll be interesting to see what, if anything, from the Chicago series carries over to the Boston Celtics series, which will begin this Saturday in Cleveland. The Celtics are a lot different than the Bulls . . . a lot older, and a lot more experienced . . . so Mike Brown will have to tweak his rotations.
Hopefully, there will be no looking back, effort-wise.
As for the other mysterious entity that kept Chicago in the thick of things with Cleveland . . . you can point to Chicago’s rebounding, or their lack of turnovers, or their playmaking abilities . . . but I have a hunch that if the culprit was unveiled, it might have been the ghost of B.J. Armstrong.
And he might have gotten away with it if it weren’t for the Cavs resurgent effort.
In a Rush: The 10 Count for Cavs-Bulls, Game Two
This is the debut of a new feature on The Wine and Gold Rush . . . called “The 10 Count.”
Basically, it’s a rundown of 10 random, and possibly pointless observations from the most recent game. Simple. Sounds only mildly intriguing, I know, but I promise I’ll try to make it fun.
By the way, the boxing reference is pretty meaningless. To be honest, I didn’t have the creativity to come up with a cool Wine and / or Gold Rush allusion . . . or a workable basketball reference that hasn’t already been used by at least 18 blogs.
If you can think of one, shoot me a line . . . and I’ll repay you with digital thanks.
OK, let’s get on with this thing:
Cleveland 102 – Chicago 92. [Cavs up 2-0, First Round]
#1.) Yeah, he’s wearing a multi-colored mouthpiece . . . although buckteeth would be sort of fitting for him.
#2.) Jamario Moon became the first honoree from the school of Intrigue Over Who Will Break Up Mike Brown’s Playoff Rotation. He received 19.9 minutes . . . up from the 7.2 he had in Game 1. He, along with Delonte West (27.3 total minutes), played the final 16 minutes of the game.
Most of those minutes came from Shaquille O’Neal. He left the game just 4:30 into the third quarter with foul trouble, and never returned. Anthony Parker’s minutes were also down from Game One. Jamario replaced AP with four minutes to go in the third, and AP never re-entered the game.
#3.) Jamario played well. He was part of the late-game defensive unit that was finally able to gain some traction against the Bulls . . . and offensively, he hit four of his five shots (all 3s) for 12 points. Nine of those points came in the fourth quarter.
He also had three rebounds and two blocks (including an uproarious one on Joakim Noah that was deadened six seconds later when Luol Deng blocked a Mo Williams shot). Moon led the team with a plus/minus of +14.
#4.) J.J. Hickson only got 9.5 seconds of playing time; Daniel Gibson received 0.0 seconds. In the middle of the third quarter, J.J. and Boobie were the two Cavaliers featured in an “NBA Cares” spot. It took place at the Cleveland Clinic, and the thought crossed my mind that it could be filming in REAL TIME.
#5.) Delonte West should look for his shot more. Not on corner 3s or on bail-out jumpers . . . but on the drive. He looked great on a couple of clever moves to the basket early in the fourth quarter. It’s nice that he operates as a facilitator first, but there are definitely times when he could be more aggressive.
Delonte finished with seven points (on 3-of-7 shooting) with five assists.
#6.) This was another crazy game by LeBron James. He finished with 40 points on just 23 shots. He was an incredible 16-for-23 from the field, 2-for-4 from beyond the arc, and 6-for-6 from the stripe.
He also had eight rebounds, eight assists, two dynamic blocks and a steal.
#7.) The turning point was probably the 3-pointer that LeBron hit in front of the Chicago bench (followed by a wink to the Bulls) with 4:20 left in the fourth quarter. That kicked off a run of 10 straight points (on four field goals) from LeBron . . . in less than three minutes. During that time, the Cavs increased their lead from three to nine.
#8.) After the game, LeBron said:
“[The Bulls] were talking the whole game . . . just, every time I caught it over there, just daring me to shoot the ball. Telling me I couldn’t shoot or you can’t make jump shots, so take the shot. So, um, that’s what I did.
“They asked me to shoot a jumper, and I did that . . . over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.”
That’s transcribed exactly. And oddly enough, LeBron called out every single one of his nine jumpers. He says he hit one, and then went through eight “overs.” Is this just a coincidence? You’d think so. But with LeBron James . . . who knows?
#9.) In the first quarter, TNT’s Marv Albert exclaimed “Anthony Parker is firing from all angles.” Now, that isn’t something that you normally dream about, necessarily . . . but he was on early. Then, he never took another shot the rest of the game. He finished with nine points (on 3-of-5 shooting; all 3s).
Not that it’s a bad thing . . . I don’t think . . . but it’s interesting how the Cavs’ offense often seems to operate in bunches. There’s the stretch where they’re pickin’-n’-poppin’ with Z, there’s the stretch where LeBron wants isolation, there’s the stretch where we work the ball inside-out, there’s the stretch where we force the ball to work inside-out, there’s the stretch where AP gets a touch, etc.
#10.) The Cavs shot the ball 12.2% better from the field than the Bulls in this game, 56.3% to 44.1%. So what gives?
Here are a few reasons why this game was close: Weak-sauce Cavs defense (or “no Cavs defense,” as I initially typed), the Bulls’ offensive rebounding edge (13-to-5), the Bulls’ second-chance points, the Bulls only turned the ball over four times (to 11 times by the Cavs), and Joakim Noah’s career performance to prove to the feisty Cleveland crowd that he does not suck. At least, at basketball.
[Knockout.]
A Matter of (Playoff) Minutes
In Game One of the Cleveland Cavaliers’ first-round playoff series with the Chicago Bulls, the Cavs implemented their “playoff rotation,” which basically consisted of seven players . . . with two others receiving less than ten minutes.
In previous playoff runs, the rotation-shrinking was essentially a no-brainer. It was just up to Mike Brown to divvy up the minutes . . . based on tandems he wanted to utilize and match-ups he wanted to exploit.
But now that the Cavs have one of the deepest teams in the NBA . . . if not the deepest . . . Brown also must decide who to play, in addition to the minutes and the five-man units.
It’ll be a mildly interesting storyline to follow throughout the series. For example, in Game One, Brown was using a pretty short rotation, with all the starters playing big minutes.
There were two likely reasons for this: With Shaquille O’Neal’s injury and all the time off the other starters were getting in the last two weeks, Brown wanted to give his main guys an opportunity to reconnect and work out any wrinkles. Also, Brown was not taking any chances. He was not about to let the Bulls come in to The Q and steal a game while the Cavs were still feeling things out.
Here’s how the minutes worked out, along with season averages for comparison.
- LeBron James: 40 minutes . . . 39.0
- Mo Williams: 39 minutes . . . 34.2
- Antawn Jamison: 33 minutes . . . 32.4
- Anderson Varejao: 32 minutes . . . 28.5
- Anthony Parker: 31 minutes . . . 28.3
- Shaquille O’Neal: 25 minutes . . . 23.4
- Delonte West: 24 minutes . . . 25.0
- Zydrunas Ilgauskas: 9 minutes . . . 20.9
- Jamario Moon: 7 minutes . . . 17.2
- J.J. Hickson: 1 minute . . . 20.9
- Daniel Gibson: 1 minute . . . 19.1
- Jawad Williams: 1 minute . . . 13.7
While you don’t necessarily love to play your starters big minutes in the first round of the playoffs unless you have to . . . it’s interesting to note that only Mo and (to a lesser extent) Andy and AP played significantly more than they averaged throughout the regular season.
The high regular season averages (including Leon Powe at 11.8 minutes) were inflated by all the injuries that the Cavs suffered to their core rotation players . . . along with Mike Brown’s tendency to give minutes (and DNP-CDs) in bunches.
And now, here are a few notes from the lineups in Game One:
#1.) The most productive time in the game came in the first 9:30 minutes of the game, when the Cavaliers were +14 over the Bulls. All the starters were in that whole time, with the exception of Andy subbing-in for Shaq 7:30 in.
Here’s how that breaks down: The Cavs’ starters were +8 with Shaq and then went +6 with Andy.
That rotation was less successful after halftime, when the Cavs were +3 with all the starters . . . and -4 after Andy came in for Shaq. (That happened in the heart of the Cavs’ seven-minute dead zone.)
#2.) LeBron rested for 2:55 in the second quarter and 4:12 at the top of the fourth.
#3.) Individually, the Cavs bench players had a few nice moments in the game . . . but Chicago was making up ground when they were in. The Cavs were even with the Bulls when Z was in the game, -4 when Moon was in, and -1 with Delonte on the floor.
Andy had the only positive number. He was +3.
Every series will be different, and every game will be a little different . . . but the lukewarm performance from the bench collectively could provide an opening for someone else to get some minutes. (J.J., Boobie or Powe . . . depending on what they need.)
Naturally, there could also be more minutes for those players . . . although more garbage-y . . . if the current subs rebound (figuratively) in Game Two, and the Cavs are able to maintain bigger leads.
#4.) In Game One, Z and Jamario basically split near-five-minute openings at the beginning of the second and fourth quarters, while LeBron was resting. Z took the second quarter, and Moon took the fourth.
#5.) Even though it seems like the Cavs relied a lot on their starters . . . at least, compared to what we’re used to . . . the Bulls were even tighter. Like the Cavs, they essentially used a seven-man rotation, but their bench only played 48 total minutes, compared to the 75 minutes the Cavs’ bench played.
Also, the Bulls did not make a substitution during the third quarter . . . the one that included their 12-0 run while the Cavs’ offense fell off track. Their starters also played the first 2:30 minutes in the fourth, meaning that Vinny Del Negro rode his starters for 14-and-a-half minutes to start the second half.
Those are just a few things to keep in mind if you’re interested in seeing how the Cavs’ rotations evolve throughout the series and the playoffs.
A Message to the NBA . . . From Cleveland Fans
[This is a guest column written by our friend (and my little brother!) Nate Shultz.]
The Cavaliers took care of business.
Joakim Noah came into the game with a false bravado, and left the game with 40 seconds to play, suffering from a ruptured ego. He effectively created a rival with the best team in the league. Smart on his part? Definitely not. Awesome for us Cavs fans? Yes. Every time Noah touched the ball, the crowd at The Q booed. He did not stand a chance in that arena, and the crowd let him know that. Joakim turned the crowd into a roaring, 20,562-person monster.
“Noah Sucks” chants were almost constant for minutes at a time. This is why we want home-court advantage. When players come into our arena and say they were hoping they would play us, I hope they are ready for a battle. The banners all over the building told us to be “All Together,” and it worked.
I have been fortunate enough to attend six games this year . . . including the one where Anderson Varejao hit that three to seal the win. None of those games have added up to the atmosphere I just experienced at The Q. Imagine the feeling if you have been to a game where a big shot saved a win, or a LeBron dunk or chase-down block brought the fans to their feet. Now take that feeling, and extend it from 10 minutes before the tip-off through the entire first half. That is exactly what the Q felt like on Saturday. It was one of those games where every person in that building felt like they could high-five the sweaty guy next to him or her.
LeBron was awesome as usual (24 pts., 6 rebs., 5 assists, 4 blocks) . . . but he performed in a way that only he can do it. He had 5 points in the first quarter, and the Cavs were up 32-18. The great thing about having a smart star like LeBron is that he knows when the team needs him to score, and he knows when to let the game just flow. The first quarter was a case where he saw that the team was doing fine in the area of producing points. He let the game flow and waited for his turn to break out into his method of disarming the defense. That time came in the late part of the third quarter . . . after the Cavs went scoreless for about seven minutes, which is a whole other conversation. LeBron had THREE blocks in the third quarter and within the span of 15 seconds, he scored FIVE points. Three of those points came off of an and-one where he made a ridiculous lay-up after being hacked for the foul. If LeBron continues to sense out the timing for the “break-out” moments . . . and I fully expect him to . . . then the Cavs have everything they need for a successful postseason.
Shaq did more than prove all of the critics wrong on Saturday (12 pts, 5 reb., 4 assists, and 3 blocks). He proved the Cleveland crowd wrong as well. The national media kept telling us how rusty he would be after missing 20+ games. And in Cleveland, we kept telling ourselves that the Diesel would be fine. We were both strongly misguided. Shaq came out and destroyed the opposition. Never mind the fact that the opposition looked like a 6’11″, 230-pound version of Shaq’s sister (if she had bad teeth, frizzy hair, and a knack for stirring up drama). Shaq taught Noah a lesson on bringing Kool-Aid to a gin party. The Diesel used post-moves that he hadn’t encountered in years. He banged around on the inside like there was no tomorrow. He came out and played like the piece we were missing last year. That is all we could ask for, and much more.
Anderson Varejao came off the bench, and had FIFTEEN rebounds. I heard many people talk about how much more talent Noah has than Andy. I am not going to tell them they are wrong, but I think Andy knows how to consistently do things on the court whether he is having a good game or a bad one. If he is struggling with getting the ball down low, he goes and gets it himself. Andy is not the most talented post player in the league, but he definitely plays with the most effort. He’s that guy that everyone else hates because they don’t want to try so hard on every possession.
The rest of the guys did what they do every night, which is much more than being role players. They hit big shots, drew fouls, played defense, passed to the open man, and cheered on the five guys on the court. I could focus on the abysmal seven minutes in the third quarter, but I am just too amped up on the energy of the Q and the potential that this team has to play good team basketball.
The following is a letter that does not apologize for the unusual, cohesive play of a successful team in the NBA.
A message from Cleveland fans to the national media and so-called “big market” sports-writers:
Keep your cameramen. Keep your All-Star Ballots. Keep your expectations and keep your predetermined requirements for a Superstar. Keep your Kobe, we don’t want him. Keep your Rondo, no one cares. Certainly keep your Skip Bayless, we are fine with A.C., Fred, and Jeff. The Cleveland Cavaliers are not your typical best-record-in-the-NBA team. We don’t have a Kevin Garnett throwing elbows during a dead-ball situation. We don’t have a Rasheed Wallace guaranteeing playoff wins. But we will tell you what we DO have.
We have the best player in the NBA, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. He has been everything our city has asked for in an athlete. He may be flashy, but he cares about his teammates. He leads them to wins and corrects them with an arm around their shoulders and a confident look in his eye . . . not a grasp of a jersey and an expletive-laden degradation.
We have role players. Not just the one-shot-wonder role players that you label everyone in a Cavs jersey not bearing a #23. Our role players come in day in and day out to provide us with the most depth in the league. These guys may not get in the next game, but we have news for you . . . when they get the chance to play, they aren’t looking to jack up their stats. No, they will play how they practice. They play with heart, and they play effectively.
People call the Cavaliers a team that jokes around too much. That’s just because every other team in the league has so many self-proclaimed stars that they can’t stand to mesh as well as we do. We dare you to try to watch one of our games, one postgame conference, or one pregame ritual . . . and not wish your team had as much fun as we do.
So keep voting for the “All-Stars,” and we will keep playing with our “scrubs.”
LeBron May Not Have a True Sidekick, But He Has a Posse
In 99% of the games LeBron James plays for the Cleveland Cavaliers, he’s the “#1.”
He’s the leader, he’s the guy making the most plays, he’s the guy featured in the most slow-motion replays, he’s the guy with the ball in crunch time, he’s the guy in the post-game interviews . . . he’s the superstar.
There isn’t a clear “#2″ on the Cavs’ roster.
(Fiddle-playing-wise, that is. Jersey-wearing-wise, Mo Williams is the clear #2.)
Nah, LeBron takes the “starring role” and the whole rest of the team is the “supporting cast” . . . with various players rotating in and out of the featured “parts,” depending on feel, gameplan, match-ups, and hot hands.
To many outside Cleveland, the lack of a clear second fiddle – LeBron’s so-called “Scottie Pippen” – is a failure of the Cavaliers’ front office and is criminally unfair to LeBron . . . like it’s somehow holding him back from something. That, I guess, is why some believe he’ll “break free” from Cleveland this summer to sign with a team that isn’t the #1 team in the NBA . . . just because he could be paired with a clear #2 in the process.
But in Cleveland, we know the truth.
It isn’t LeBron and a #3 . . . a couple of #4s . . . and few #5s, it’s LeBron and multiple #2s.
Saturday’s 96-83 W in the first-round play-off opener against the Chicago Bulls is a great example. Who was the “clear #2″ in that game???
Here are your options:
Mo Williams: Mo had a double-double, with 10 assists and 19 points (on 8-of-14 shooting; 3-of-7 from beyond the arc). He also had four rebounds, a steal and a block. He had five turnovers . . . and a rough patch, like everyone else, in the third quarter . . . but overall, he was vital to making the offense function and be exciting, which it was for most of the game.
Shaquille O’Neal: Shaq hasn’t played in a game since February 25th, due to surgery on his thumb. It didn’t matter. He looked terrific, playing in what was one of his best games in Cleveland. He had 12 points (on 5-of-9 shooting) with five rebounds (three offensive, and not cheapies either) and four assists. Oh, and he also had three blocks. Since the Bulls don’t have anyone who can handle Shaq . . . (they’ve officially joined the club) . . . he was controlling the paint and drawing fouls.
Antawn Jamison: Antawn also had a double-double: 15 points (on 7-of-14 shooting; 1-of-4 from beyond the arc) and 10 rebounds. He also had three blocks and a steal, and had several great transition buckets . . . and moved to the basket well when he put the ball on the floor.
Anderson Varejao: Andy had another one of those games where he’s just everywhere . . . on every single play. Actually, I can’t remember the last game when I was disappointed with Andy’s effort. Forget that . . . I can’t even remember the last game when I wasn’t amazed by Andy’s effort. This game was no different. He was crashing into the stands after loose balls, he was running circles around the Bulls’ bigs. He had four offensive rebounds . . . and 15 overall. (That’s off the bench!) He also had two steals, a block and eight points (on 3-of-7 shooting).
(And Anthony Parker almost became the fifth Cav in double-figure scoring, with nine points (on 3-of-8 shooting; including an uncharacteristic 1-of-6 from beyond the arc) . . . not that he’s in the conversation for LeBron’s #2 in this game.)
So who you got? Mo? Shaq? Antawn? Andy?
Let me rephrase: Can you even exclude one of those guys from the #2 discussion?
I can’t.
And beyond that, it’s hard to have beef with the #3s, the #4s and the #5s in this game.
Delonte West played a gritty 24 minutes, which included three assists and no turnovers. He only had four points, but had four rebounds and two steals. AP’s three-ball was off, but he dished out four assists.
Zydrunas Ilgauskas played nine tough minutes. Jamario Moon hit a clutch three in his seven minutes. J.J. Hickson went from being a starter on the best team in the NBA, to not even getting into the gameuntil garbage time in the final minute . . . and yet, he was still shown laughing and jumping up and down on the sideline at the Cavs’ bench at least three times by ABC’s cameras. Incredible.
Not everything was perfect.
There was that seven-minute hiccup in the third quarter . . . but those are the kinks that the Cavs will be working out throughout this series. Personally, with how on point the Cavs looked (despite Shaq’s time out and all the rest the starters got over the past two weeks), I don’t even care.
Maybe if LeBron had this magical “Robin” that outside fans think he should have . . . maybe that #2 could’ve hit six straight shots to carry the Cavs through that seven-minute rough patch in the third.
Unfortunately, I’ll never know . . . because I wouldn’t want to trade what we have to get that guy.